During an interview on the ABC daytime talk show The View, author John McWhorter visited the panel to promote his new book Woke Racism, but quickly became embroiled in a contentious debate with panelists Sunny Hostin and Whoopi Goldberg. During the sit-down, McWhorter was accused of comparing racism to religion.

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“So, there are systems that need to be changed, and you say there is racism. But in 2008, in a Forbes article, you wrote that we can call ourselves a post-racial country. You said that America is past racism against Black people. But then in this book, you write that anti-racism is a religion,” Hostin said to McWhorter. “Do you believe that racism, then, is also a religion? And that we’re honestly living in a post-racial society? Since you’re against anti-racism training and policies, what is your solve?”

McWhorter immediately fired back, claiming that the election of President Barack Obama “proved that racism isn’t what it used to be.”