Maya Angelou once said, “Won’t it be wonderful when Black history and Native American history and Jewish history and all of U.S. history is taught from one book. Just U.S. history.”
Unfortunately, we’re far from that reality, especially as legislators around the country continue to fight against Black history. Thankfully, Franchesca Ramsey and Conscious Lee are doing something about it. Their podcast, Black History, For Real, tells the voices and stories integral to Black history that have long been ignored or forgotten. The Wondery show returned for a second season on July 15, and to celebrate the occasion, Ramsey and Lee spoke with Blavity about the show’s importance, the stories that moved them and what they want to tell next.
What are the pros and cons of conceptualizing Black history on digital platforms?
Franchesca Ramsey: One of the biggest pros is that we’re able to reach so many people. Black History, For Real has consistently been one of the top history podcasts across a number of different podcast platforms. And we get messages across social media from people on every corner of the planet who are listening to the show, which is really incredible.
Conscious Lee: I would say the cons are because we’re talking about history; there’s always multiple perspectives that people want us to speak to or speak from. We’re just two people, and while we have a robust writing team behind us, it can be tough accounting for everyone’s concerns.
I’m curious about your research process, particularly regarding parts of our past that seem completely forgotten.
Ramsey: Shoutout to the team at Wondery — we have such an incredible amount of writers and producers that are collecting stories every season, and we’ve covered so many different Black historical figures. Last year, our first season, we did an arc on Mansa Musa, which is really incredible. And in the future, we are delving a little bit more into stories from the continent, which I’m really excited about.
Lee: I think what me and Franchesca do real good is contextualize what our writers find with our real-life experiences or what’s going on today. I went to school for African American studies, and I have a master’s in the subject, during which I went even deeper into it. Sometimes I surprise myself, and I’m like, “Damn, I knew all this.”
Is there a story you’ve told that touched you personally?
Ramsey: Fannie Lou Hammer and learning about the hurdles that she went through trying to conceive children and actually being forcibly sterilized was incredibly heartbreaking to me on so many levels, especially with the current state of reproductive justice in our country.
Lee: Man, W.E.B Du Bois. I think it forced me to humanize a lot of leaders that came before me. Hammer got me as well.
Teaching Black history is getting pushed out of curriculums in many places around the country. What can educators, especially teachers in those areas, do to make sure students, Black or not, know the history of our people?
Ramsey: We are living in a time where people are attempting to whitewash Black history in very tangible ways in our schools, in our history books. I’m from South Florida, and Ron DeSantis has been pushing to remove African American studies from AP History credits. There are a lot of people who are monetarily and politically invested in Black history not being told.
As for what educators can do, I mean, it sounds basic, but you gotta tell the truth, not the sanitized version that kids are getting. Unfortunately, I’ve seen some textbooks where they’re calling enslaved people workers or they’re calling them immigrants like they chose to immigrate to the U.S.
Lee: The telling the truth part is big because we’ve seen the legislators throughout this country be able to pass policies that not only pathologizes Black history but confuses what Black history is versus diversity, equity and inclusion versus CRT. It becomes this big convoluted boogeyman of us thinking about how other people will feel when they’re talking about Black history.
I think cultural competency and being able to collaborate with teachers, districts, counties and parents goes a long way in combatting the political climate that we live in right now.
What stories are you looking forward to telling?
Ramsey: I would really love it if we explored some sort of Black history future segment where we could highlight some young people who are doing positive things right now. Conscious and I have committed to using our own social media and self-produced content to provide platforms for Black creatives who maybe haven’t had a chance to be in the spotlight. I would love for our show to facilitate something like that.
Lee: I’m dying to tell the stories of Black people on the continent, specifically before European engagement. I want to do it from the perspective of Europeans. I want to know what are we doing before. What was we doing in East Africa, West Africa, and Central Africa? What were the civilizations, who were the people, how were they living, who were some figures? Those are the stories I’m burning to tell.
Thankfully, Franchesca Ramsey and Conscious Lee are doing something about it. Their podcast, Black History, For Real, tells the voices and stories integral to Black history that have long been ignored or forgotten.
The Wondery show returned for a second season on July 15, and to celebrate the occasion, Ramsey and Lee spoke with Blavity about the importance of the show, the stories that’ve moved them, and what the stories they want to tell next.
What are the pros and cons of conceptualizing Black history on digital platforms?
Ramsey: One of the biggest pros is that we’re able to reach so many people. Black History, For Real has consistently been one of the top history podcasts across a number of different podcast platforms. And we get messages across social media, from people on every corner of the planet, who are listening to the show, which is really incredible.
Lee: I would say the cons are, because we’re talking about history, there’s always multiple perspectives that people want us to speak to or speak from. We’re just to people, and while we have a robust writing team behind us, it can be tough accounting for everyone’s concerns.
I’m curious about your research process, particularly when it comes to reaching to parts of our past that seem completely forgotten.
Ramsey: Shout out to the team at Wondery– we have such an incredible amount of writers and producers that are collecting stories every season and we’ve covered so many different black historical figures. Last year, our first season, we did an arc on Mansa Musa, which is really incredible. And in the future, we are delving a little bit more into stories from the continent, which I’m really excited about.
Lee: I think what me and Francesca do real good is contextualize what our writers find with our real life experiences or what’s going today. I went to school for African American Studies, and I have a Master’s in the subject, during which I went even deeper into it. Sometimes I surprise myself and I’m like, “Damn, I knew all this.”
Is there a story you’ve told that touched you personally?
Ramsey: Fannie Lou Hammer, and learning about the hurdles that she went through trying to conceive children and actually being forcibly sterilized, was incredibly heartbreaking to me on so many levels, especially with the current state of reproductive justice in our country.
Lee: Man, W.E.B Dubious. I think it forced me to humanize a lot of [Black] leaders that came before me. Hammer got me as well.
Teaching Black history is, in many places around the country, getting pushed out of curriculums. What can educators, especially teachers in those areas, do to make sure kids, Black or not, know the history of our people?
Ramsey: We are living in a time where people are attempting to whitewash black history in very tangible ways in our schools, in our history books. I’m from South Florida, and Ron DeSantis has been pushing to remove African American studies from AP History credits.There are a lot of people who are monetarily and politically invested in Black history not being told.
As for what educators can do, I mean, it sounds basic, but you gotta tell the truth, not the sanitized version that kids are getting. I Unfortunately, I’ve seen some textbooks where they’re calling enslaved people workers, or they’re calling them immigrants, like they chose to immigrate to the U.S.
Lee: The telling the truth part is big, because we’ve seen the legislators throughout this country be able to pass policies that no only pathologizes Black history, but confuses what Black history is versus Diversity, Equity and Inclusion versus CRT. It becomes this big convoluted boogeyman of us thinking about how other people will feel when they’re talking about Black history.
I think cultural competency, and being able to collaborate with teachers, districts, counties and parents goes a long away in combatting the political climate that we live in right now.
What stories are you looking forward to telling?
Ramsey: I would really love it if we explored some sort of Black history future segment, where we could highlight some young people who are doing positive things right now. Conscious and I have committed to using our own social media and self produced content to provide platforms for Black creatives who maybe haven’t had a chance to be in the spotlight. I would love for our show to facilitate something like that.
Lee: I’m dying to tell the stories of Black people on the continent, specifically before European engagement. I want to do it from the perspective of Europeans. I want to know what are we doing before. What was we doing in East Africa, West Africa, and Central Africa? What were the civilizations, who were the people, how were they living, who were some figures… those are the stories I’m burning to tell.
Black History, For Real Season 2 is now available on Wondery+ through the Wondery app, Amazon Music, and everywhere podcasts are available.
