There has been nothing but acclaim for Ava DuVernay’s documentary, 13th, since it’s release. Many are billing the work as the must-see film of the moment. Rapper Pusha T has been quite the man of the moment. The G.O.O.D. Music president has been a visible social justice and political advocate of late, campaigning with Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine. So coming off of his interview with G.O.O.D’s Desiigner, Pusha sat down with DuVernay for Complex to talk about 13th.

“We’re up against a system. And this really shows you the system. It is not these few things that we can do to get ahead, it’s a real understanding of what needs to be dismantled,” said DuVernay. When Pusha asked her about her thoughts on “if you do the crime, you do the time,” she said “You have to look at the crime and look at the time. If were gonna apply that adage equally across all citizens, then that would be fine, but the problem is we don’t. You and I do the crime, and there is one penalty. [If] some of our friends in the room taping the interview do the crime, it’s going to be something different. Also, the exorbitant amount of time put on these sentences. These prisons need to keep bodies in them to stay afloat.”

Check out Ava’s talk with Pusha T above, and to get the full understanding…well, you’ll have to check out 13th for yourself. It’s eye-opening and it’s just that good.

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