It’s rare for a series to be able to tackle hard-hitting issues such as colorism and class disparities in thirty-minute segments. However, Starz’s “Survivor’s Remorse”, which is led by showrunner Mike O’Malley and produced by LeBron James, hits the nail on the head every week. The series follows NBA star Cam Calloway’s (Jessie T. Usher) life off the court as he juggles his Boston bred family, his newfound fame and his massive fortune. The first two seasons had some pretty thought-provoking story lines, including the Calloway matriarch’s (Tichina Arnold) vaginal rejuvenation and Cam’s sister-in-law Missy’s (Teyonah Parris) decision to do the big chop and wear her hair natural.
The season two finale left audiences and the Calloways reeling from Uncle Julius’ (Mike Epps) possibly fatal car accident. Ahead of the season three premiere this Sunday June 24th, I sat down with showrunner and writer Mike O’Malley, Jessie T. Usher, Erica Ash, Teyonah Parris, RonReaco Lee and Tichina Arnold. We chatted about where “Survivor’s Remorse” is headed, their characters’ evolutions, and how #BlackLivesMatter has personally affected them all.
Taking On “Survivor’s Remorse”
Mike O’Malley: I’m really just a ham and egger. I’m just a guy out there looking for work just like everybody else. I’m a character actor and I’m a writer. When LeBron James, Maverick Carter and Tom Werner call up and say, “Would you be interested in working with us?” I’m like “Yeah for sure.” So, I’m going to be fifty this year, and I’ve been in this business for a long time. One of the things that I’ve realized is, if you associate yourself with winners and with people who can help raise the profile of a project above the fray, you have a better shot of your hard work being seen by people, which ultimately is what you want. I was looking at this time in my life for a great collaboration, and to be supported and encouraged and also enhance that writing experience with people who have real depth and knowledge about the work that I was writing about. Essentially when you just go to the building blocks of human behavior, that’s where universality comes into play. We have a great writing staff who talks specifically about things. The actors also have a big part in talking to me about how they think some things might be said or portrayed, and it’s a real collaborative effort. We had a big story-line in season two about Missy’s hair. I haven’t thought about a haircut in fifty years. I don’t know anything about that. But, when you have actors and Tracy Oliver who really talked about the fact that when you’re a Black woman and you move to a new town, the first thing you have to figure out is where you’re getting your hair done. Erica Ash and Teyonah Parris were also talking about how important that is to them. I am fully aware that I am just completely oblivious to that, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a great story and that we can’t put a writer on it and say, what are the stakes here, what does this mean to people?
On The Importance Of “Survivor’s Remorse”
MO: I think if you’re interested in stories about how we live now, and if you’re interested in stories about characters and how people are striving to be better people, then “Survivor’s Remorse” will mean something to you. It’s a show about how our humanity gets in the way, and often times trips us and leads us to make mistakes in our own individual lives; how we make mistakes in relationships, how we make mistakes in what we say, and the choices we make. It’s about how we love and criticize in the wrong way. Or, we choose relationships that take us away from happiness. So I think what I find interesting about working on the show is that it reminds me of the purpose of storytelling.
On Incorporating Current Events
MO: One of the things we found with the show is that it’s very hard nowadays for a famous athlete in Cam’s situation, to not be alert to what is going on in the real world. So, it is our choice to root these characters in the real world, and not have them oblivious as to what’s going on in life. One of the funny things about comedy is that even when dark things happen, you make a joke because what else can you do?
Getting To Season Three
MO: It is a miracle. As an actor I’ve been on like three shows that were canceled after two episodes. (Laughing) The unifying element on that was me. Starz is a very brave network! You’ll see this season and you’ll think, I can’t believe they said, “Yes, go do that.” This year was very much about what is not being talked about on other shows. It was about what can’t you have on broadcast television or on a sitcom that you’d be restricted by. So this show has just been a gift to me to work on and to learn and to just be surrounded by these actors who are just bursting with talent, and to finally have the opportunity to make it manifest. Writers from the first and second season, they’ve gone on and are now working on other shows, and they constantly want my actors on other shows and I’m like, “No! They’re working on this show; we have this season. Don’t take them away please.” That’s the whole thing about diversity in television and in films is that people are like, “I don’t see enough stories about people who look like me and are about people like me.”
Where “Survivor’s Remorse” Is Headed
MO: Well, I don’t know how the story’s going to end because I want it to go for a long long time. (Laughing) I’ve got three kids to put through college…hopefully. The cast is so talented and their range is so wide so they can play comedy and then they can do drama and have depth, and they can go to those things quickly; they can turn on a dime. That includes the new series regulars this year, Chris Bauer who plays Jimmy Flaherty and Robert Wu who plays Da Chen Bao. We have seven actors on the show who are series regulars and can do anything. So, it’s an embarrassment of riches. It’s been a real gift to me. And then just being around these actors, it’s just been amazing.
On Matriarch Cassie Calloway
Tichina Arnold: Cassie, as with any single mother busting their ass to just keep their head above water; when you finally get money, fame or glory and you see your son’s dreams playing out; it’s scary. So sometimes you make certain decisions that your probably shouldn’t make. Or, you react in certain ways that you probably shouldn’t react. But with Cassie, I always try and make sure that I keep her authentic. Out of all of the characters on “Survivor’s Remorse”, Cassie is the only character that is not trying to find herself. She knows who she is. But, there is that underlying core which I’m sure everyone who has a mother can understand, there is a lot of shit your mother won’t tell you. You might have never even seen your mother cry. I asked my daughter the other day. “Have you ever seen me cry?” She was like, “No, I’ve never seen you cry mom.” My daughter is twelve now so I was like, “Whoa.” As a parent, you naturally have defense mechanisms of protection, and you naturally have a mechanism of coping and dealing with life. I never want to lose that with Cassie. When Mike O’Malley gave me the line, “You punched the money!” last season, I would never verbalize that. I would think it, but Cassie is that type of person to say it. That is the difference between me and Cassie. Her life is very synonymous with mine even though they’v got millions and I don’t (laughing). That’s the only difference. I wish I had it, but I don’t! (Laughing)
On Cassie’s Evolution
TA: With this season you’re going to see Cassie a little more vulnerable because of her brother Uncle Julius getting in the car accident. I can’t say what happens with him, but you’re going to deal with the fallout. Sometimes when death and travesties happen in a person ‘s life, it forces that person to look at themselves. It forces that person to look at their present reality outside of the fame, fortune, money and glory. I think Cassie in this season is forced to go back to the basics. She’s also forced to deal with her past. She drops a fucking bomb about something that happened to her in her past. Obviously, the things that happen affect us all in our lives regardless of whether or not we believe it. Whatever happened to Cassie, it affected her, and it affected her relationship with her daughter Mary Charles. It affected her relationship with people and it affected her relationship with love. We get deeper into each character this season, and you find out more as to why they tick. With Cassie this year, when I play her, I try to picture in my brain all of the Black women out there who are watching her.
On Reggie’s Evolution
RonReaco Lee: I think this third season for Reggie, his focus really gears towards Cam this year, as opposed to trying to branch out. He certainly wants to continue to build that legacy. Reggie struggled a little bit in the first two seasons. In season one he kind of screwed up the Da Chen Bao deal, and in the second season there was the whole Jupiter debatable. So this third season is really about negotiating the contract; getting Cam everything that he can get for him. Reggie has to learn and make mistakes. Now the trust is there a bit more and they still deal with some trust issues as it pertains to Cam trusting Reggie to really be his manager and we will see that this season.
On Cam’s Evolution
Jessie T. Usher: Cam’s learned a whole lot in a little bit of time, and that’s just kind of what happens when your lifestyle changes overnight. You just have to adjust and that’s what he’s done. At the same time at his very core, he’s still the same person. He’s still very loving, very nice, very caring; he always wants to give. He’s smarter and he’s focused in a way that he wasn’t beforehand. He wants to take care of his immediate family first, and then kind of branch out and help. Though he does go overboard sometimes. He creates a foundation in this third season and Reggie feels like he could have done it on a smaller scale, but, Cam is just that type of person. It backfires a little bit, but as a result he learns a few things. I like playing that type of person who gets to make mistakes and can learn and teach people through his mistakes. This season Cam is trying to figure it out. He knows that there must be more to him then giving somebody a good game. It’s just about finding out what that is.
On M-Chuck’s Evolution
Erica Ash: Julius’ accident really just stirs up a lot of unanswered questions for M-Chuck. Regardless of what happens with Uncle Julius, I think the trauma that we left off with in season two causes M-Chuck to reevaluate who she is, and why she is here. Coming that close to death is really jarring for her. On top of that, having her court-mandated therapy is going to really cause her to delve into herself and really uncover a lot of stuff. Some of the stuff she uncovers for me Erica, was pretty bone-chilling so you’re going to feel it too…(Laughing ) because I like to share.
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On Missy’s Evolution
Teyonah Parris: This season we really find Missy just figuring out who she is besides just being Reggie’s wife. She had a life and she had a career before she met him and she wants to get back to that. She made the sacrifice to go to Atlanta to support him, and she would do it again but she needs to get back to being herself. So, Missy becomes Cam’s media consultant and in doing that, she realizes, “Ok, we have this platform and we can use it to put a different narrative out.” The narrative that we’ve seen so far is that light is right and skinny is winning (Laughing), or whatever. Not that those things aren’t also valid, but she knows how important representation is. This really comes out in one particular episode regarding colorism. As the episode unfolds, Missy and Reggie have opposing stances on this matter, but I, Teyonah, agreed with both sides. You understand both sides and I think that’s what this show does so brilliantly. It’s taking a very sensitive subject like colorism and really flipping it. You see two very smart people go head to head and have very strong arguments on where they stand on the issue. As a viewer, you kind of leave with this sense of well… they’re both right. I love that about the show.
Parallels Between Cam’s Success and Success As An Actor
JU: (Laughing) I count Cam’s money and then I look at my own, and it’s just not there yet. (Laughing) But in all seriousness, we say Cam is an overnight success because he went from nothing to something, but the backstory is that he’s been a great basketball player forever. It’s just that he’s now getting the recognition. For me, my growth has been a lot longer. This is my twentieth year acting. I started when I was very young and it’s just been one step at a time for me and the recognition has gone up. I mean this year and last year have just been really crazy, but I think that’s just because everybody is just realizing it at the same time. But if you look back, you’ll see it’s been consistent. Cam was just playing for fun and all of sudden it’s a hundred million dollars at one time.
On Reggie & Cam’s Relationship
RL: Reggie doesn’t have to do as much to micromanage Cam, because Cam has matured. I think you look at Cam first season as opposed to Cam third season and you realize that he’s not the same guy. The maturation process for him has been pretty quick. I actually thought he would stay in that immature place where he wanted to ball out, spend a bunch of money and do a bunch of irresponsible things. However, that hasn’t been the case and that has really changed Reggie’s job. Reggie can fall back a bit really. Reggie definitely has Cam’s best interest at heart. That was actually one of the things that I tried to figure out when I first read the script. Was Reggie going to be the guy whose intentions people questioned as it pertains to Cam, or was he going to be the guy who had Cam’s back? I think we definitely aired on the later, and that’s where Reggie stands and I hope that is where he remains. Though it would make for interesting television and I wouldn’t be surprised if the writers did something different. However, I would be disappointed because I think it is a very beautiful thing. It’s something that our writers and our showrunner have discussed. You just don’t see this type of relationship between two men, whether they’re Black or white, you just don’t see two men embrace the way that Reggie and Cam embrace. They really share a genuine love for one another. They have a real bond. When LeBron won the Championship recently and I saw him and Maverick embrace I thought, wow, that’s what it could be like for Cam and Reg one day.
On Cam & Reggie’s Response To Carmelo Anthony’s Call To Put Morals Over Money
RL: I definitely think Reggie would be on Team Black over the brand. I think he would be very calculated and mindful. I think he would utilize Missy a great deal like he’s always done. He would make sure that our point as Black people is getting across and that we were heard and understood. I would be very disappointed if Reggie chose to protect the brand in a moment like this. But at the end of the day, it ain’t RonReaco saying this stuff it’s Reggie Vaughn, and just like Cam had to grow Reggie has to grow. However, I definitely think Reggie would advocate for Cam taking a stand.
JU: Cam is a people’s person. Cam is the first one on the line. He’s always been that type of person regardless of what the consequences might be. To him it’s not even about consequences. You’re always going to get backlash whether you do the right thing or not. Cam is the first one out there, no matter what that means. I applaud him for that. Reggie might be kind of upset he might say, “We could have just did a video.” But, Cam would have been the Carmelo Anthony honestly to make that kind of statement.
On Cassie, Cam and M-Chuck’s Bond
EA: In real life, I would say Tichina’s character definitely bleeds over in the most amazing way. She’s one of the most nurturing and supportive people that I have ever worked with. She’s really really open, and very vocal… surprise (laughing). We actually have a lot of common. A lot of people think that we have a mother/daughter type of relationship in real life as well.
JU: That’s scary!
EA: It is. Tichina’s own mother said it was scary. So, I think that in relating to her, we get what we need from her both as actors and as characters on the show. If I have questions not only about the work that we’re doing, but also the business of acting, Tichina is just that person you want to go to. She’s just a bank of knowledge and she’s open about it. There are a lot of people who have paid their dues and they’re like. “Figure it out grasshopper… you got the Internet.” (Laughing) Tichina is not like that. She’s like, “What do you want to know? Cool, go talk to this person and this is what you do.” So, it’s really nice to have her there and to have her be so open. We have an on-going joke that she loves Cam more than me.
JU: I don’t think it’s a joke necessarily. You know, we have that mother/son thing going on. Cam is a mama’s boy. M-Chuck causes a lot emotions. She brings up a lot of issues that Cassie doesn’t want to have to deal with necessarily. Cam is kind of like the mediator so… (Laughing) Cassie’s nicer to Cam. But you will see in the third season that it’s not just because Cam is the money, it’s a lot deeper than what you could ever even imagine. I’m not going to say that Cassie’s relationship with M-Chuck is understandable once you finish this season, but it kind of is.
EA: It kind of is. The things that we reveal in season three will give you a lot of insight into why Cassie and M-Chuck’s relationship is the way that it is. It’s very good working with Tichina. She’s tough, and she’s tough as Cassie but there is a method behind her madness. She’s tough because she has to be strong and she’s had to be strong for a very long time.
On Cassie’s Secret
TA: Cassie shares what happened in her past. She’s forced to share it because Cam insists upon it. For the first two seasons, Mary Charles was always asking, “Mom, whose my dad?!!” And you finally have to address it. I think Cassie finally addressing it helped me. I thought, “Wow, there’s going to be a lot of things that I’m going to have to address with my daughter when she gets older.”
On Cassie’s Love Life
TA: Cassie being with Da Chen Bao was the first interracial relationship that I had on television, so it was kind of exciting. Mike O’Malley calls us into the writers’ room individually at the beginning of each season and asks us what we see for our characters; and what kind of storylines want. The one thing that I did say was I wanted to expound upon my relationship with Da Chen Bao. When he asked me why I said, “Me being a Black woman, I haven’t seen many Black women adorned by billionaires.” I want Black women to see it’s not farfetched and it actually can happen. I know this is a show and it’s pretend, but there are billionaires out there that have their own planes and jets. Look at George Lucas, look what he’s done for the community; he speaks out. So, that’s why I said let’s go into this a little further. I want to not only open doors and bust out windows, but I want to represent and I want Cassie to represent our faults, our fears, our commitment and also you’ll see her, softer side.
On Uncle Julius’ Accident
EA: I think that both in real life and as our characters it was shocking. It was, “Where do we go from here?” I think having a tragedy like that happen within a family causes you to retreat into yourself because it’s an upset. So, whenever an upset happens like with a computer, you have to restart. All of the characters sort of go into default mode and restart. You’ll see in this season a different side of Cam and M-Chuck’s relationship as a result of what happens to Julius. You’re going to see a lot more compassion and support between them in a way that you haven’t seen in seasons one and two. We talk about it and we do mention it in the first two seasons, but you’ll really see it this season.
JU: It’s the same for Cam. When something like this happens you start to do a lot of self-evaluation. When death is near, that is unfortunately the only time people seem to realize how valuable life is. That takes everybody in the family on a different type of ride; a ride they never had to go on board before. Cam at one point seemed so sure about a lot of things, his relationship, family members and his life . When you talk to guys who play basketball their only goal is, “I gotta make it to the league.” But when you make it to the league, it’s so much more involved. That’s what we talk about. That’s what this show is about. When you have the hundred millions of dollars and the contract, and the time on the court; it comes with a price. And, it also comes with stuff that you’ll never see coming.
On Missy and Reggie
Teyonah Parris: I think where the difference is between the couple on “Black-ish” and Reggie and Missy, is that that this is a younger generation. This is a couple that doesn’t have kids yet, they are newly married and they are just starting. It’s so important to have a variety of representation on television. To see a young Black couple on television who is successful, who are supportive and who are in a committed relationship, we don’t have that. I think that what Starz is doing and what “Survivor’s Remorse” does by having this couple and giving them a platform to not only deal with very relevant issues as it pertains to being married, but also as it pertains to being Black and just being human is so important because we need that representation and we don’t have it.
On The State of America & #BlackLivesMatter
RL: I think what’s happening is fucked up. As it pertains to solutions, I wish I had one. I wish I had a Jesse Williams speech that I could just spit out and it would go viral and people would say, “That’s what we’ve been looking for.” Unfortunately, I don’t have that, so I just have to make myself available to try and reach out and connect with people. I wish my children were older so I could take them out and protest, and we could experience that together. But, I’m still searching and I pray to God between myself and my friends whether they are celebs or cats that work and hustle like most of us, that we can figure it out.
TP: I think that’s the frustrating part about it like, “What do we do?” I think one of the things I’m reconciling with like Reaco was saying is that I wish I spoke as eloquently as Jesse. I wish I could give you everything that he made us feel, what we know is our truth, and to articulate our emotions the way that he did. But that’s not what God has given me. So, becoming comfortable knowing, I might not be the person to stand and speak on our behalf, I might be the person whose going to hold the cell phone and record the injustices; or the person who shows up at the courthouse, or the person to sign people up to vote. I can only speak for myself, but I feel like because we’re celebrities or public figures people just expect us to come out knowing how to speak well and knowing how to address these topics. However, if you say one wrong thing you will be dragged, and it lives perpetually on the Internet. So I think that paralyzes a lot of us. But, not allowing that to paralyze me, and understanding that I don’t have to be the person in front has helped. Whatever we are good at doing matters. That is also a part of the solution and something that helps move us forward. Collectively when we all stay in our lane as long as it is proactive, that will move the needle a bit. For me, it’s about feeling less guilty about not serving the way someone else can serve that has freed me up to actually serve.
EA: M-Chuck and Erica would do that exact same thing and that is to say, nobody has the right to tell you how you react to tragedy. I just do not believe that. I could feel the same way you feel all day, but you might be a mouthpiece and I might not be. You might emote in a completely different way. It’s not up to you to say because you have a platform and because you’re famous you need to speak out about this thing that matters to me. Even if it matters to me, which obviously it does, I’ll be very clear about that. My position on police brutality is that is stinks! It’s ridiculous. But, I also think that it is in poor taste to say that people have to speak out in the way in which you would want them to speak out, just because they have a platform that you wish you could. I think that if someone is adamant about something, and if they are connected and also well informed then sure, yes. I think platforms should be used across the board whether you are famous or whether you are the person only the people in your neighborhood see. If it’s important to you, then you say something in a way that is most comfortable to you. Nobody has the right to put your job on the line, your career on the line or your life on the line because they want to get behind something. The people who are saying those things need to stand up and do something and act. You have a voice, it doesn’t matter how big or small your voice is. You use your voice and I will use my voice in a way that I see fit for the things that matter the most to me. This is something that matters to me clearly, but I think that having conversations, putting out my opinions to the people I choose to put my opinions out to is my way of dealing with it. It does not make me wrong that I don’t do it in a way that you choose. M-Chuck would say, “That’s good for you. You do your thing. If I choose to you’ll se me there, if I don’,t I don’t want to hear you calling me and telling me I’m this and I’m that.”
The third season of “Survivor’s Remorse” premieres Sunday, July 24th at 10PM ET. on Starz.
Aramide A Tinubu has her Master’s in Film Studies from Columbia University. She wrote her thesis on Black Girlhood and Parental Loss in Contemporary Black American Cinema. She’s a Black cinephile, bookworm, blogger, and NYU + Columbia University alum. You can read her blog at: www.chocolategirlinthecity.com or tweet her @midnightrami
